.........but on to my next job with my Yamaha

Have fun with your new toys

Yamaha?
That's a motorcycle right. You are riding a yamaha motorcycle to your gig
KQQL, I got it now
Best to ya and keep the shiny side up
Bebop

We're still here enjoying our boards and letting the Roland guys take the stage for a while and have their 5 minutes of fame.

Yes, they just got impatient waiting for the next Yamaha.hahaha

Let the Battle begin

You're riding a Yamaha to the gig? I guess you can't afford a Harley.

Don't worry, zuki.... We'll try to be less hostile than the Yamaha guys were about the G70 when they were in the majority (at least vocal majority!)....

I just think that if Roland hadn't shot themselves in the foot by marketing the G70 through the CK Mom and Pop stores at exorbitant prices when it first came out, rather than the MI dealers that used to handle and discount the G1000, the darn thing would have taken off like a rocket.

It REALLY isn't THAT different now than it was two years ago, just dealers are now asking about $1k less (some MI stores handle it now). If it had STARTED out at that price, it would have given the T2 some VERY serious competition...

Hi zuki

I don't think it's so much a minority. It's more like the silent majority

Scott

Bebop, are you a pilot or ex-pilot? That's an expression I rarely hear outside of aviation. I am still an active pilot and former military pilot. Just curious.

chas

Zuki,
A minority? Roflol. No way! Try being the owner of a Lionstracs Mediastation, lol. Or of a Wersi.

I think these 2 groups have the term minority completely taken.

But it is true that Roland has gotten alot of attention on sz lately.

I have been wanting to acquire a keyboard from one of the big companies to use for comparitave work with my Mediastation. You know really test out the arranger features on a side by side comparison, and try their styles on the Mediastation.

I considered using either the Korg Pa1xPro or Roland G70 for this purpose, as I had been interested in these 2 before I ever acquired my MS. I decided on the G70 when Hank had his for sale about 2 months ago.
Hank was great to deal with and Don Mason was very helpful also. So I now have Hank's old G70.

Still haven't had time to get into it fully, but I hope to soon. I do like the Organ Mode on the G70, but its no B4 like on my MS and the pianos don't even come close, but I wouldn't expect any other arranger's piano to either. I guess I'm spoiled with the Giga sounds.

The Guitar mode on the G70 is interesting, similar to one of the MS's giga guitar sample with "key switching".

Maybe I'll have time for more testing over the next month.

SZ has been a Yamaha forum for quite a while so don't expect any sympathy from those of us in the true "minority". LOL

I'm glad we have a lot of diversity here that's what makes this forum great.

Chas, I've never flown a plane but sure know how to jump out of them. I used to be a Para-Commando (Airborne). Have you earned your Silver Wings?

Taike

minority? that's me, still using Korg is35 arranger for 7 years. best nav ever for me..have tweaked basic sounds enough to do the job for me, and bass/drum styles are good too. but always looking to upgrade...

have bought and sold: Technics kn2600, Genesys ProS,
Roland E60. have store demo'd:most yams, rolands, korgs. the ones i liked (g70, pa1xpro) too heavy by far for me. what I liked about the others was offset by dislikes.

but coming soon: I'm getting demo tuesday on sd1+ and
pa800, then will demo the s900 and make decision.
sd1+ heavier than i'd like but not all that bad..

------------------
Miami Mo

the E60 is the one I miss most, just loved the 76 and the
keybed and the bass recognition and the sounds. but the
d-beam having only one button for control functions w/
pages of menus to go thru to change controls was a
bummer, as was the one-touch being for suggested setups,
a feature for beginners--not for favorite sounds (like on Korg/Ketron). add to that there were malfunctions in the
d-beam and tap tempo in my unit so I don't trust the quality.

What malfunctions did you have with the D-Beam? I found a lot of problems users had with Roland's D-Beam (this goes for Roland users of all kinds from arrangers, to synths, and groove boxes) was that they needed to adjust the sensitivity of the D-Beam to fit the environment they were in. You have to be careful not to have it set too high or too low.

no, Squeak, i sent it back to Goeorge Kaye, and he saw
the problem too..the 4th button, controls, wouldn't
change in low light, only very bright light--or, you had
to keep you hand over the d-beam and double-click the
control button to effect a change. the tap tempo was in and out--sometimes it was right on, other times it was much too fast or slow compared to what you tapped..that was also corroborated by Kaye.
neither was user fault or could be corrected by settings.

Would that it were only 25 years since my first solo. I MAY be just a tad older than you might think (because of my youthful sounding reparte' ).

Bebop, I can see how that expression would also apply to bikes.......and yachts .

chas

PS: I'm not telling my age either. I'm embarrassed to be as old as my birth certificate SAYS that I am. I think there was a clerical error.

One wrong stroke with the pen and you're doomed, eh Chas? Why not see it this way: you've earned the right to call yourself C. Landers.

Zuki, don't take it too hard, buddy. I've been a minority for almost 26 years. The cuisine and the other sex made me do it.

Taike

Do you mean to say that the vicar (or is that minister?) had had a couple of refreshers!?



------------------
Eddie from Rotherham
Skype:eddiefromrotherham
www.yamahakeyboards.info

I'm used to being in a minority too. It's not because I "want to be different". It's just that I use what I like best, and that is often different from what others like best.

If having the T2 puts me in a minority, so be it. I'm comfy with it, and it works well for the way I tend to use it, which may differ from what other folks tend to do. I often only use a bit of the style parts, sometimes throw in a repeating multipad or two, and play the rest "by hand".

I was in the minority when I had the MZ2000 and actually liked it. E nough that I got another one to replace the first one that I sold. I still like the PA80's OS better than the T2's.. also in a huge minority there. I just don't like many of the PA80's panel or lead voices and some of the style fills compared to the T2 ( or the MZ even for that matter ). I also find the PA80's multipads to be pretty useless. Still, I have all three here.

Don't get me wrong. I think the G70 is quite good from what I've tried on it. Would it work for me as well as the T2 ? Maybe.. and then again, maybe not, but perhaps one day I'll part with the PA80 and or the Motif ES`so I can make room for a G70. I don't see the T2 or the MZ leaving any time soon though.

AJ

As one who WAS in the minority (when using a G70 was cause for scorn)... Let me just say 'amen'...

Use what you want because YOU like it, and it does what you want it to do... Don't listen to others (including me!) if you are sure what you have is doing the job you want it to do. Arrangers (just like most other instruments) vary a lot, and few of us have the same needs. It really is no surprise that different players prefer different arrangers. In fact, it would be boring if they all preferred the same

If you are happy, and your audience is happy, that is all that really matters.

Diki - BRAVO! You're right! Whatever floats your boat and gets the job done. I played a (sax) gig last night w/a great guitar player and his wife on vocals. Everything sounded excellent through his PA and on the break I meandered over to check out his (rack mounted) 'back up band'. Wow was I surprised! He was running floppy disk-based MIDI tracks on an old Roland midi player which was driving a couple Sound Canvas rack units. He told me he could store 3-5 tracks per floppy.

I told him about using my I-Pod to back me on my solo sax gigs and he was envious, but confident that his system keeps getting the job done. We did everything from "Brandy" to "Grapefruit" and the bass, drum, and keyboard tracks were solid.

So as much as I do enjoy reading about the Roland converts, I will keep working on my T2 until I develop my keyboard skills to the point that I can consider another board.

So for now, even if I'm in the Yammie minority, I'm happy to be able to read about all the technology and how to use it. Thanks to all the 'zoners' for keeping the arranger excitement flowing!

Randy

Well, I'll be joinging the Yamaha minority soon, once the 900 comes out. Yamaha really did seem to be the majority around here for awhile. But that makes no diffence to me one way or the other. I have the Roland Fantom X rack with a bunch of the SRX cards, so I have pretty much all Roland has to offer soundwise anyway. The 900 will be my first serious arranger. About time to add some Yammy to my arsenal. Plus Yammy is staying away from those accursed touch screens, and they provide text manuals for their units in addition to the usual PDF. Way to Go Yammy.

Hi Randy

Anybody I know?


Scott

zuki .... you think YOU'RE a minority ... I'm playing a technics kn6000 !!!!! ... and LOVIN' every minute of it ...

Played at an arts festival today ... one of the women running it said I was the best entertainment of the weekend ... doesn't say much for the rest of them ...
t.

Hey good - job Tony It doesn't matter the size, it's how you use it - meaning 76 notes vs 61 notes of course

Not so sure about "those accursed touch screens"...

Aside from the VERY few bad OS decision about how big to make the screen button for a function (fill/rit is my main peeve), and of course the outside daylight reading problems (which T2 suffer from just as bad), I have found the G70's touch screen to be readable AND accurate, without a hint of unreliability. I trust my show to a G70 every day, and it has never been a problem...

I can attest the G70 touch screen is accurate, reliable , & a pleasure to operate in real time for sure....

OKAY OKAY, so you people like touch screens. us blind people don't, so I can call them accursed if I want. If they'd at least put in some sort of alternative method....

Ouch... Sorry.

That has got to be an increasingly difficult problem, these days, eh? About the only workaround I can think of there is that most functions and style selections, etc., can be called up with MIDI, so some kind of tactile MIDI control box might be able to be programmed to call touch screen functions...

Roland tend to bias their OS towards the 'one registration per song' system (although you CAN do 'free-panel'), so you CAN call up UPGs (reg's) using panel buttons and two spots on the touch-screen (bottom left and right) - for paging. You would bottom left a bunch of times to get to page one, then count bottom right beeps to get to one of 10 or 12 pages, then panel select the choice there.

But I can only imagine how difficult it can be to operate one of these without sight. You might be better served going back to an older arranger (G1000, perhaps) that still sounds good, but relies on buttons a lot more...

I don't think the Yammy arrangers use touch screens do they? So I should be fine with a 900. But you are right, modern music technology does seem to be getting harder and harder to use. What with all the software plugins totaly being graphic and bitmap interfaces, which have no keyboard commands, or at least very few, and rely entirely on mouse. But that's a whole other discussion for another time on another forum.

Whether a screen is a touch screen, or whether there are buttons surrounding the screen wouldn't make that much difference I would have thought... Unless you can see WHAT page the screen is on, you will still have little idea what the buttons do...

The trouble with the idea that some 'alternative' should exist comes up against the fact that hardware buttons as an alternative to screen selection on todays incredibly powerful (but incredibly complex) arrangers, would raise the price an awful lot. There's a real cost reason why they are moving towards touch screens. Buttons cost a lot of money.

Perhaps some kind of tactile overlay for a touch screen would at least help your fingers get to the right spot...

I have a small amount of experience with this myself, because I play outside in the Florida sunshine on a beach gig several times a week, and in those lighting conditions, sometimes the display is close to unreadable if you are a hurry..!

If there are buttons, at least you can memorize button presses, and often exit out enough times where you can get back to a known location if you mess up. With a touch screen, it is very hard to eeven know what places to touch, unless as you said we designed some kind of tactile overlay. Still, it is harder to accidently push a button than it is to accidentally push something on the screen without knowing it. At least if you push a button, you have the tactile sensation of the button being pressed. With a touch screen, I might accidently activate something and not even know it while feeling around for the place I meant to push.

I worked with a blind musician..setting up a G800..He recorded our sessions, the key was remembering default settings and then counting button pushes to get where he wanted to be..I was totally amazed how he mastered the keyboard...BTW: did I mention, one of the best musicians I have ever heard..

Hey Scott..... the gig was with Jeff and Andrey Byrd. They are from west P'Cola. We played the gig at the SanDestin Hilton.

Have a great week all!

Randy